Oh Nonny, I have had this thought more than once as well. They added a pointless scene just so AA and Gatiss could have a laugh. I DO think her friendship with him is part of the reason her role got boosted and they tried to “make her a star.” I think it backfired on them. They took away from what people actually watch the show for, ya know Sherlock and John and their relationship, and replaced it with the Adventures of Assassin Mary. Low and behold they had the worst season of the show EVER, which was pretty much universally disliked (yes I know there are folks that liked it, good for you). Most people I talk to, friends, fans, casuals, can’t stand Mary and don’t understand why the show took such a stupid turn. I know I have zero desire to ever watch S4 ever again. I think most people have an understanding that if you title the show Sherlock and then promise that it’s about Sherlock and John and their relationship, your expectation is that it will actually BE about Sherlock and John and their relationship. Not BBC Mary. Shame on Mofftiss for the bait and switch.
Completely agree @yorkiepug you can’t force chemistry, you can’t force someone to be a star. It is sometimes in the little moments that a person mesmerizes you. For me it was Lara puller and loo Brealey even though they initially did not have big roles, especially Loo but they impressed me with their acting. They didn’t need extra scenes written for them. I was an Amanda supporter all along but this overshadowing aspect really bothered me. The set lock changed, the public interviews changed. Both Martin and Benedict became much more guarded. At the same time, Amanda willingly interacted with the fandom. Bringing issues to their attention which did not bode well. Fandom should not be dealt with for personal recognition. It is a force of its own. But trying to channel it to complain about things she did not approve of, starting with slash fan art to people clueing set lock photos, it was really counterproductive. It also brought Martin and Benedict on set chemistry to people’s attention unnecessarily. I did not like how they handled the whole thing after season 3 and I think it is achingly visible.Moffat and Gatiss, nepotism is alright but rewiring everything according to nepotistic priorities, NOT ALRIGHT!
Yeah, there was probably something going on there. All those interviews after Mary was introduced, hinting that AA was going to be a big part of “Sherlock” from then on… and most of us didn’t like the sound of that. There is no way anyone but Gatiss, Abbington, and possibly Moffat wanted Mary to be such a big deal in the show. They got stuck on some weird idea about how important she had to be and forgot to think of why any of their loyal viewers would actually *want* such a thing to happen.
I’m sure a few people were fine with it once it was a fait accompli, but surely no one, ever, thought the show needed such a big dose of Mary that we all would end up choking on it.
Here’s the thing I’ve never understood: nobody in tjlc EVER wanted Mary to be a prominent character. Yet EVERYONE wanted her to be The Big Bad.
You literally could never have both. So what’s the issue?
Personally I hate season 4. But like. There’s always been a disconnect for me between fandom THEORIES and fandom DESIRE.
Mary could have been a great main character. The problem isn’t that she was given a big role. The problem was what that role turned out to be.
Sorry, but I have to disagree. Nor everyone wanted Mary to be a big bad. Honestly, I really didn’t care much for her at all. I didn’t want John Watson to have a wife, and if he must have one, she should vanish as soon as possible with as little impact as possible. Sad marriage, cheating, divorce – fine. Her being killed or being bad would still have given her way too much room in Sherlock’s and John’s life. That’s not what a Holmes/Watson adaption needs – being laden with the burden of an evil wife, out for revenge, or a dead wife, made into a saint.
Aside from Johnlock, when I watch a Sherlock Holmes adaption, I care for Sherlock Holmes and John Watson, their dynamic, their friendship, evolving through thrilling adventures and crime solving. I don’t care much for Hudders, Mycroft, Adler or any other canon character that was blown out of proportion on this show. And certainly not for Mary Watson or any other wife.
As for baddies – there are aplenty found in ACD canon. Not just Moriarty. Culverton Smith, for example, Adalbert Gruner, John Clay, Milverton, Abe Slaney, Dr. Grimesby Roylott,
Eustace Brackenstall
and so on. All great stories that could have been updated to modern times with a strong female element, as most of their victims are female, some resonating with today’s issues like the grooming done by Gruner in Illoustrous Client – and sometimes women, like in Abbey Grange, are also involved in the killing, if you need a more ambiguous element.
There simply was no narrative need for Mary. Her story was inconclusive, her motivation illogical, her character rather boring – because we knew virtually nothing about her, and what little we knew always changed. Plus it was clear from the beginning that she would leave eventually, for Doctor Watson’s wife isn’t really present in the original stories. So why should I as a viewer have got invested into her? Because she was Freeman’s partner and started to tweet with fans?
In retrospect, Mary is one big factor that destroyed the show. I wished I’d seen that clearer earlier.
Oh, and that plane scene wasn’t even funny or well acted. It was boring, too long and slightly embarrassing – like Mary’s whole arc.
Some of us speaking here were not part of TJLC, by the way. I’m speaking as a huge S1 & 2 fan who resented the enormous impact of the Mary character from the get-go in S3.
Personally, I think people wanted her to turn into a bigger baddie than she was only because it would justify the emphasis that was immediately placed on her. When you introduce a third major character in a show that viewers thought had a two-person relationship at the heart of it (and that’s based on a canon in which Mary Morstan is only a blip), naturally they are going to be thinking there was an exciting reason why that character was brought in. It turns out there really wasn’t one; it was just a standard Moffat twist in the existing show universe.
So much good stuff here. First of all, TJLC or not, shipping Johnlock or not Mary was a HUGE blight on the show. I don’t care if you thought John and Sherlock were just friends or if you shipped them, she got in between and in the way of the duo that we all watch the show for and obliterated it. No Sherlock Holmes and John Watson should ever treat each other the way BBC’s version did, it was ghastly. And tho I know there are people who actually liked S4 (how??) I honestly don’t give two shits about them because this is my post and my blog and I hated it.
I never wanted Mary in the show. I agree we didn’t need her. When they announced AA as Mary I assumed they did it on purpose thinking that it would be an easier pill to swallow with her being Martin’s RL partner. I didn’t like Mary from TEH on, I thought she came off poorly, I know they were going for “cute and spunky” so I wasn’t overly shocked when it turned out she was “bad.” Since they made her shoot Sherlock I was all on board with the Villain Mary theories, I mean what else could they even DO with her?? She shot and killed Sherlock? She lied to and manipulated John?? There’s no coming back from that.
Well apparently TPTB thought a redemption ark that made no sense and a personality constantly changing were a better fit for Mary. TST was the most boring Sherlock episode EVER. I literally was checking the time and playing with my phone through the whole episode. I care about John and Sherlock and want a show about THEM. If they wanted to make BBC Mary they should have made a spin off of her adventures instead.
I honestly don’t know if Mofftiss are planning a S5. I have my doubts since they are working on their “exciting new project” together. I don’t know how much I’ll care when and if a S5 happens. I know if Mary is for any reason still around there’s no way in hell I’d watch it.
I just want to add an UH-HUH! to the conversation.
Will Sherlock stop playing with his glasses? Is John Watson drunk again? On a scale of 0 to 10 how Done is Lestrade? AND: just who is that mysterious handsome, talented, well-dressed, amazing man in the fabulous hat?
FIND OUT ON FRIDAY.
When: Friday 12th May, 11pm BST/GMT+1 (6pm EDT/ 3pm PDT)
Where: Rabb.it – I’ll post a link on my blog to my room 5 minutes before the start of the stream.
Please reblog and spread the word if you’re interested. Last week was loads of fun so I hope you can join us!
Yeah, I’m starting to think that as well Nonny, especially since they literally replaced his role as the storyteller with Mary. And HEY guess whose backstory we got instead? Mary. And guess who took over John’s (and essentially Sherlock’s) role as partner / detective? Mary. Like I feel like they decided Mary was indeed more important than John ever was. AND it’s even more frustrating for me because they WERE building Mary up to be an exciting villain, and instead made her a terrible plucky … whatever the hell they ruined her to be. Bleh. I fear that they really DON’T value the Holmes/Watson dynamic. Which is so bizarre given what we had pre-S4, because it WAS all about their relationship, even when Mary was there. So I don’t get why suddenly John was relegated to a side character and Mary had more screen time dead than John did in all three eps. *sighs*
It’s especially weird because Moftiss did interviews where they basically said that the John/Sherlock friendship was the heart of all the Holmes stories and why the stories are so popular. So why they would suddenly do essentially a 180 on that, I have no idea. My only explanation for S4 at this point is “2016 was a slow slide into an alternate universe & also affected Moftiss’s brains” lol.
LOL, yeah. That’s why I was so confused too. Their relationship is so important to them that they felt they had to tear it apart, it makes no sense at all.
I’m barely joking when I say that Mary is a virus. She’s infected the story and made herself essentiel by taking the place of another (John).
She is John in TST, that’s the whole point and reason why she and John are OOC.
The only part she’s failed is that Sherloc doesn’t listen to her when they’re with Norbury and that’s why he died: he didn’t listen. And even that, Sherlock will ignore Vatican Cameo in TFP.
We can say without much sacarsm that they could have killed John instead and we wouldn’t have seen the difference.
I mean, wouldn’t that have been perfect?
Mary is:
a nurse where he was a doctor;
a former assasin where he was a soldier;
someone Sherlock wants to protect;
his conductor of light in TST;
the one telling him how to act with people;
the one telling their story;
a Watson.
It’s always Sherlock Holmes and Dr Watson to the audience, so what if it’s Mary and not John? Mary is better, John is a cheater, wouldn’t that have been karmic justice? She is loyal, not him! As she’s a woman, Moffat could make her seek comfort with Sherlock and voila! Your Holmes/Watson you so desperatedly craved, you sick shippers.
It’s insiduous, but Mary has destroyed John without even killing him.
That’s why we need to go back to a John’s POV, immediately. He needs his journey to find himself again and take his place in the Circle of Life in the story back.
Remember when the masterpiece episode (Read TFP) leaked TWICE and then every official Sherlock thing was actually promoting that by telling us not to watch……………………………Did I dream all of that?
Remember when Mofftiss said TFP was the best episode they’ve ever written and they’re incredibly proud of it?
I have receipts
Remember when they didn’t even submit the episode they were ‘so proud of’ for the emmies??
Remember when we all collectively became very very sad and disappointed
As a veteran of various fandoms and a life long Holmesian I can attest that the ending of a fandom is slow and painful. Many fans jump ship at the first sign of trouble, usually just after the ‘peak’ has been achieved. Others make an elaborate artwork of theory out of the material TPTB have given the fandom and that in itself become addictive. Finally, as the source material either self destructs or whimpers out into a facsimile of itself, the core fans scramble for any foot hold they can find, entering the grief cycle of denial, anger, bargaining, depression and, if they are lucky, acceptance. There are always casualties, vulnerable psyches that have relied on the constructs of the fandom as their lifeboat, their social circle, their very reason to get up in the morning. As others move on or hold out false hope, the vulnerable are damaged even more.
Fandom studies have documented the effects and many of us in the Sherlock fandom have been through the process ourselves in other fandoms. We know how the shit goes down. You grieve, you move on. But all at your own pace.
Last weekend we saw one particular event occur with the Twitter-verse fans. Many had gone to that version of Sherlock and John’s story in the wake of s4. A core, vocally aggressive, group were ARG believers and convinced it was a Moffat/Gatiss/BBC constructed vehicle. There were some clues that pointed that way. [A photo taken from the BBC building was the main one] I myself doubted it but kept an open mind, hoping it was not Moffat and Gatiss as I wanted the project to be RP fans who were doing an excellent fix it for s4. At the weekend the ARG fans really pushed the issue, doxing some polish PR company and getting into a standoff with ContactSH when he was firm that they were way off track. I understand the need and anguish on the part of the fans who separately needed the ARG idea to be true. I get it, but their denial and anger was not pleasant to read. Finally there was a letter sent to one of the more prominent ARG fans by ContactSH, which she published on Twitter, and now things seems to have dissipated. I do hope so. The Twitter-verse is an excellent healing event, brilliantly role played and delivered as a wonderful gift to johnlockers. It’s a good exit route for those needing closure and resolution of a dream.
I want to point out that there are a few people in real crisis. I know several of you know who they are, one person in particular is in great pain. It’s the tragic aftermath of what occurred with s4. I just want to say that as much as I understand the tinfoil hat/lost special/resolution and correction-in-s5 world of hopes and dreams, we need to look at how MEN think and act. Two men; Mark and Steven. They have little sympathy or empathy for our fandom, they treated us abominably post s4. They played with us for 4 seasons, in full knowledge of the game they were playing. They really believed s4, and especially TFP, was great stuff. I have studied their body language in the filming of s4 videos, the interviews surrounding s4, the post screening appearances, and I can attest that they were sincerely proud of s4 and thought it was good. They envisioned a response from the public similar to TRF post screening response. They had no idea it was shit. [I am sure some people involved knew, hello Martin, but many others in the cast and crew didn’t see it either] Maybe too close to it to see the truth. Or arrogant enough to believe they could do no wrong. Whatever. I have no time for them now, they showed their true colours.
Holmesians we need to move on. Sherlock and John would be appalled by the treatment of their characters by Moffat and Gatiss in s4. It’s a disgrace to the legacy. It’s not over, Holmes and Watson continue, we need to take our eggs from the damaged basket of BBC Sherlock and not wait for the two perpetrators of this disaster to now fix it. Others are doing that already; in fan fiction, in the Twitter-verse, and maybe in some new television version of our heroes journey. It will go on. Holmes and Watson will go on, they can never die. It is what it is and it is a story of two men in love.
someone: what’s ur favorite tv show me: uhhhh fuckinnn i guess bbc sherlock someone: oh i’ve never seen that me: you know what? neither the fuck have i
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