the mood is sherlock and john never being able to touch each other unless they’re in mortal danger because it gives them an excuse they don’t have to examine too closely. this mood will age you. don’t forget to hydrate
I was wondering, if, IF they did a complete 180 in S5 and made Johnlock canon either by erasing all of S4 or actually have them work through their issues, would any of you who have rejected S4 and the show go back to it? Would you ship it again?
I guess the last part is me asking myself because as it stands now, I can’t ship Johnlock anymore in this adapation. And I don’t have an answer to this at the moment. I’m really not sure I want to invest my heart into this show again.
@twocandles I never stopped shipping it, because I’ve just sort of taken the characters and done what I want with them Post-S4, and all my fannish engagement has been with fan-created works along the same vein. Sometimes that means a fix-it. Sometimes that means ignoring all or some of S4. I’m pretty flexible, other than the fact that I personally can’t interact with content that accepts TFP in any way.
But then, I also shipped it before BBC Sherlock, because I had loved the Granada series and the ACD canon first, before I ever saw BBC Sherlock. I’ve always shipped it. I always will. Plus, I liked what Martin and Ben did with their versions of John and Sherlock, I liked the idea of plopping them down in modern day London, and meeting them early on, giving them a chance to grow into the men they would later become (which disappointingly the show dropped the ball on, imo). So I still like to play with the BBC characterisations in a limited and adapted way.
As for the show itself, there is nothing that could bring me back. I feel like the writers have made it clear that they always saw the idea of John and Sherlock being an actual couple as nothing more than a tease or a joke they would play to until they couldn’t play to it anymore (which they later admitted they possibly took too far). In fact, Mark Gatiss had been outright stating they had no intention of going there since Mumbai ComiCon in Dec. 2015, and reiterated that point here during a Tumblr Q&A just before S4 aired.
In the end, I think it was clear that they decided to go the TPLoSH route, of pining gay man, hopelessly in love with an indifferent, and straight ‘friend’, which doesn’t interest me, and which I feel runs in direct contradiction to the way the story had been presented all the way up to TAB, as well as the way the actors had been interpreting the characters’ relationship in earlier seasons.
Finally, there was the way Moffat and Gatiss treated their young queer and/or female fans, and the way the BBC chose to market the show, knowing it was never going there, as well as the way they treated people who complained about the queerbaiting, or general loss of writing/production quality post-S4.
In short, I don’t trust the writers or producers at all anymore, and don’t want them to ever get another cent of my money. So no, I would not go back to watching or loving any new seasons of the show, no matter what they do with it. At this point it would just feel like they were back-peddling in response to fan outrage in an attempt to make a few more bucks. But, really the whole thing is sort of a moot point anyway, as I don’t think that the writers have any interest in or the intention to write any more seasons (they’re moving on to Dracula), not to mention that I think it would be a very hard sell to their very busy and successful leads, after the mediocre critical reception of S4.
So, if you can find a way to make John and Sherlock your own and keep shipping them that way, then I wish you all the joy in that, and if you can’t, if you just want to wash your hands of the pairing forever because it’s too painful, I can understand that too.
I continue to ship them, because I’ve always shipped them, and I’ve made my peace with how I want to engage with the content in the BBC adaptation. It works for me, and I imagine I will continue to engage with fan-created content set in that universe for as long as fans are creating it. But I’m leaving those involved with the creation of the show itself behind me.
I can’t imagine a season 5 that would make me want to watch again (and I don’t think there’ll be one.) There was very little in season 4 I liked and nothing at all I loved. The characterisation of both Sherlock and John strayedtoo far from what I fell in love with in the first seasons. So I’m here for fan content – be it ignoring season 4 or fixing it, as some fantastic fic writers have been able to do.
Thank you so much to everyone who has commented here! I’m probably forgetting people: @very-grumpy-bisexual @lediona25 @readingfanficsblog@elskudani @inthenameofunrequitedfeels (ah yes, thanks tumblr for being useless)
I hadn’t even thought about it much when I yelled this question into the void but @sussexbound you bring up so many important points. One of the biggest is that I also can’t support Mofftiss anymore. These two arrogant bastards are so full of themselves but then show a complete lack of respect for parts of their fanbase, I never want to see their poison again. I’m still pondering whether I want to yell about them constantly to warn others or just ignore them entirely but that constant level of negativity might not exactly be good for me.
I did realise though that whenever I’ve abandoned a show in the past, no matter what the reason, I usually didn’t go back to it. And in this case I’m actually thinking of selling my merch, which I haven’t even done with the other things I’ve lost interest in, so it’s definitely a very bad case. And I am looking forward to the third Ritchie Holmes movie, if that is still happening but I also need to force myself not to get my hopes up too high. Some of the old adaptations/shows have a special place in my heart but I also feel like I need a very big break away from Sherlock Holmes adaptations in general, Mofftiss have put a complete damper on my enjoyment of the entire franchise that I haven’t been able to shake off yet.
I don’t think I’ll ever enjoy Johnlock again in this version, even if S5 happens and isn’t a complete mess. The damage has been too severe. I do assume that no Johnlock will ever happen in this show and while I’m sure it’s vaguely possible to still ship them in a future series for myself I think that’s not happening. It sucks that I can’t even enjoy fanworks anymore but it’s probably better that way, I wouldn’t have been able to move on otherwise.
So I have a lot of opinions about this, shocking right?
First of all, I never stopped shipping Johnlock, even in this version. I honestly just ignore S4 exists at all. And the fandom has ALWAYS written this show better than Mofftiss have. The fandom wrote better resolutions to the pool showdown. The fandom wrote better resolutions to the fall. The fandom wrote better resolutions to Mary shooting Sherlock and the end of S3. And the fandom has been doing their best to make something out of the trash heap that was S4. I really personally just can’t enjoy post S4 fics. I don’t like Rosie, I don’t like the resolution of what they did with Mary, I don’t like anything that happened in TLD. I don’t like Churros.
Now onto the real question. Would I watch S5? Will I be happy if Johnlock happens then? Here’s some possible ideas of how S5 could go down and how I feel about them.
1. They continue as they are. Everything we saw happened just like we saw it. John and Sherlock continue on as friends. John is raising his daughter. John doesn’t live in 221B. They solve crimes. John still has his ring on and mourns his awful dead wife. Maybe they’ll even still have AA narrate and send her dumb fucking videos? God that sounds awful. I’m not interested, thanks. Even if they decided to go the johnlock route after all that, it would be so hallow, it would feel so cheap.
2. The whole E/M/P thing, it’s all a coma or a dream. It starts from ASiP or after the fall or after the shooting, whatever. I can see why people cling to this idea so strongly, Wouldn’t that be nice if we could go back and erase everything and have a fresh start and all the bullshit in S3 and 4 weren’t what they seemed. I just don’t believe it’s possible. What are they going to do? Cake Ben and Martin in makeup to hide their age? CGI their faces to make them look years younger? Other than the fact that I hate the whole “it was all a dream” plot line, it’s just bad and lazy writing to make a whole season fake. And for what? Just so you could have your moments of shock or surprise just to erase it all later? Again, no thanks.
3. Then there’s the unreliable narrator theory. That things are not what they seems in S4 and didn’t actually happen or not the way we think they did. Now, while I actually LIKE this theory….in well, theory, I again sadly just don’t see this actually happening. I don’t think it’s doable either. And honestly, how awful S4 was to sit through would not make this worth it for me. I think it makes for great fic though.
And then my own personal dream situation #4. Mofftiss are both fired and shamed for their awful writing. The show is given to people who actually care about the characters and a coherent plot and we forget S4 ever happened and someone new makes everything right. I just love Ben and Martin as these characters so much, it’s hard to let them go.
NOW to be 100% honest I don’t think there is any way to redeem this show. John Watson is my favorite character. I will NEVER forgive Mofftiss for what they did. TLD was an utter pile of crap and they should be ashamed of themselves for not only what they did with John but how they treated Sherlock as well. I don’t think there is any coming back from their mess. I’m not interested in anymore of Mofftiss crap. I will not be watching anything else they write or are show runners of. They can go fuck themselves.
And to agree with @sussexbound I can also never forgive Mofftiss for how they treated fans. They are two arrogant douchebags who don’t deserve the fans they have. BBC can also go straight to hell for how they baited the fans with their adds and their bbc three tumblr (I don’t give two fucks if it was just a fan of the show having fun, it was irresponsible the BBC should have NEVER let that go on). BBC Sherlock will hopefully be a lesson to others of how NOT to do things in the future.
BUT I’m such a huge supporter and fan of the fic writers and the artist who are doing things right. Thank jebus for you all. I still ship Johnlock. I still love these characters. Honestly the show has been an utter mess since S3 and the fandom has always had to clean up Mofftiss messes with their dumb plots and poor writing. I think I’ll always love John and Sherlock and I’m not going to let Mofftiss ruin something I love. They can kiss my ass.
Hey folks, so @lediona25 thought it might be fun to start a fic book club where we all choose a fic and read it together and discuss. We were wondering if anyone else would be interested in joining?
We want to start in December, like with a holiday themed fic. And if we get enough interest we might need a better forum to discuss in, if someone has a good suggestion of a good chat app?
So, when you type ‘military kink’ into Google’s search bar, this happens…
*sheds a single tear* I’m so proud
I’m pretty sure google bases this search on your previous search history and as Eli Pariser says in his TED talk it’s likely that someone else typing “military kink” would get competely different suggestions.
Sorry to burst your (filter) bubble, the world would just be such a better place if all the people were johnlockers (although Sherlock’s view on personal integrity is somewhat… questionable) 😦
That’s why I completely cleared my cache, cookies and browsing history, logged into my boyfriend’s computer profile, cleared the cache, cookies and browsing history again, opened an incognito window, and searched “military kink.”
To celebrate the 2 year anniversary of The Original Johnlock Shirt, I have redesigned the ultimate shirt for fans who ship John Watson and Sherlock Holmes.
UPDATE 11/8/2017: This shirt is now available again for preorders! And for the first time ever, it’s available as a tank top! All sizes available up to 5XL. But preorders end soon on November 15, 2017! These will ship in time for Christmas, so hurry!
Let’s get this straight; Mofftiss came to the project as experts in Sherlock Holmes history. They knew all the components of Doyle’s Holmesian universe plus the subsequent myths, theories and pastiche that grew from the original stories. They came to their BBC project fully aware that for decades there had been a reading of canon in which Holmes and Watson were in love. They spoke openly about TPLoSH as one pastiche that covered this topic. The ‘famous desperately unspoken’ comment referred ONLY to that issue, for what else was ‘desperately unspoken’? Holmes is known for being outspoken, blurting out facts, secrets and deductions all over canon. Ejaculations all over the fucking place. So his ‘desperately unspoken’ can and does refer to his romantic feelings for his Watson. Mark means exactly that when he used this phrase about Sherlock in TPLOSH. In my opinion it is Mark’s KINK, his tie in to a trope in the gay community of longing and unrequited love that is so painful it’s delicious. He wanted that in his Holmes AU. [On a side note, I think Steven has wet dreams over Gabrielle Valladon, and wanted her in the AU, morphing from naked seductress Irene into covert operator Mary] Mofftiss were using their Holmesian knowledge to make their AU at the same time as writing their Holmesian fantasies into the vehicle. They KNEW what they were doing from day one, following Doyle with the hook of all hooks: SEX.
Johnlock HAD to go into the AU. It was started not by Mofftiss but by Doyle himself. It IS the hook in the stories that captivates and holds the reader/viewer enthralled. But in this modern era, any story with an element of gay love should have that element upfront and played out on screen. Not used as Victorian subtext or modern queer bait. It was the most obvious modernisation of the Sherlock Holmes stories. Fuck the mobile/cell phones, texts, messages on screen, and all the other clutter the writers go on about in their ‘genius’ updating, it was the John and Sherlock relationship that had the most traction, the most lure, the most pull, for an audience. Just look at the reaction, even in non johnlock fandom, the casual viewers all picked up on it; in jokes, in skits, in polls, in teasing. They all knew it was there. Where do you all think the bromance trope originated? Two buddies solving crimes but on the verge of sexual attraction/love? It started with Holmes and Watson. Why was this not updated to be a true romance?
Mark and Steven had an opportunity that they let slip away. Instead of making history they had taken Victorian subtext to an absurd level with the use of mirror characters, which ceased to be clever after s2 and became just sloppy and easy writing of the gay romance. ‘Let the mirrors have all the fun’. Ending with the last straw of Sherlock telling mirror-John-Molly ‘I love you’. They crossed the line in s4 in so many ways, it was like watching a clever theory combust into insanity. All the hubris and nepotism exploding back into their faces. Separation of Holmes and Watson never works, and violent estrangement was a stupid way to go, especially over the ridiculous death of Mary. Wasted opportunity on a grand scale.
We didn’t start johnlock, neither did Mofftiss. Doyle did. For those people on here who came to the party later, I just ask that you respect johnlockers who have predated BBC Sherlock. They cared just as much about this love affair as you do. Don’t attribute to Mofftiss this glorious century old gay romance, they just used it to pull in viewing figures as a tease.
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