What if it was to mirror the OG restaurant scene in ASIP and highlighted to everyone how much better suited John is with Sherlock? Oh, I’m clutching at straws but I’d love it if they actually included the deleted scenes and that the footage is still rolling around because it would be a joy to see what could’ve been (ie gay bar scene) 🙂
As always, I’m on the periphery of conversation, but I overhear that Moffatt described Mary as having shot Sherlock nicely. That’s a relief, because I thought it was a savage, cold blood attempt on his life. But it was nice, so I worried needlessly.
I wonder if that is a consideration in sentencing a convicted nice shooter? “Your Honour, she shot him at close range and blasted his hepatic artery open, but she was pregnant, and she was very polite about it, and she wore this really interesting black beanie, so it was a nice shooting. I recommend a suspended sentence and some booties for the new baby.”
It opens up a whole new genre of assault and homicide, doesn’t it?
To shoot someone nicely.
To stab someone nicely.
To run over someone nicely.
To burn someone’s house down nicely.
To throw someone under a bus nicely.
Or have I misunderstood? Is shooting someone nicely subtext for we forgot what happened in the other series, so we just took a guess and filled the rest in with approximations?
John beat and kicked the shit out of Sherlock nicely.
I didn’t realize people would be so salty about my brief convo with Steven about Mary. I prefer Mary to be evil cuz I think it’s more logical and hella more interesting, but to me it’s their show, they do what they want. Anyways, here’s the whole exchange while I remember it.
Me: do you think Mary was redeemed in the end, or was she still morally dubious?
Steven, surprised: well I don’t think she was morally dubious at all!
Me: uhh she did shoot Sherlock…
S: but she did it nicely, it was surgical. She was stuck in a difficult situation. If Sherlock didn’t mind it, why should we?
Me: so you think she was redeemed by her ending?
S, slightly frustrated with me: she didn’t need redemption, it’s not a scorecard. She had such a tougher background, so her movement towards humanity means more than …Sherlock is also, but he’s getting there, and John is solidly (for humanity, something like that I forget the wording, he rambled a bit, Mary took a bullet for Sherlock etc. )But she’s dead now, and there’s not a scorecard for that. It’s not black and white.
Me: ok, thanks for your time.
Sigh.
Moff’s emotional intelligence, understanding of relationships, of the natural consequences of one’s actions, and knowledge of the way to influence and impact your audience with your writing seems to be really low…
I mean even Amanda was tweeting stuff like, “Mary is a fucking psychopath”. Granted Amanda says a lot of stuff on Twitter for strokes, but like I think it’s fair to say that even she thought Mary’s arch was either going to turn out a little differently than it did, and/or felt that some of Mary’s actions in TST qualified her for ‘fucking psychopath’ status.
Also, if you set a character up to a) come between the protag and his love interest, and b) have them shoot the protag, and c) have that protag claw his way back to life just to save his love interest, and then d) have that character threaten to murder him again if he causes her to lose the man they both love, it’s only logical that an audience will assume that that character is meant to be viewed as villainous, or at the very least a clear danger and obstacle to your protag’s happiness and wellbeing.
And yet Moffat seems incapable of comprehending this? The mind boggles…
So if you have a tough background and are in a tight spot, it is ok to shoot someone? I’m sure law enforcement will be happy to let you go once you explain the circumstances. I really feel sorry and maybe even a little worried for Sue to be married to a man who thinks these things. In what universe would Sherlock be ok with being shot, going through months of pain, suffering and rehab. What if Mary had shot John because she was in a tight spot. Would that have been fine? Truly, this is a man who has absolutely no understanding of consequences of actions.
As absurd as the idea of forgiving Mary is, of her shooting him “nicely”, the worst thing storytelling-wise is the extreme pain they showed Sherlock in. It was extreme and *awful* to watch. He’s our protagonist ffs we’re meant to feel protective. It’s one of the reasons it was inconceivable to me they’d show that then let it go. We’ve all pointed out that if you want to redeem someone you have to give hints, show actual remorse, etc, etc, but the protagonist in THAT much pain and it meant…nothing? It’s like Moffat is sadistic and simply likes to show pain just for the sake of drama, unconnected to anything…no consequences or responsibility or resolution as usual.
I mostly use Tumblr mobile (except for now, when I am typing this on a desktop). Over the last few days, I’ve noticed several posts (I think they were all text posts, but can’t be sure) that start with the post, which is then proceeded by lots of blank space (so you have to scroll down) and then ends with a picture of DVD Mary, smallish, in the lower left hand corner of the post.
I thought this was a clever meme, one that sort of undermined the original intention of the post (especially when it was a Sherlock-related or Johnlock post), but…THIS FORMATTING AND PICTURE ARE NOT IN THE ORIGINAL POST. If your reblog or refresh the page, the white space and Mary disappear, and the post is as it should be.
I discovered this today,when this happened in a totally non-Sherlock post/poster, and it made me check it out.
Um, so is my mobile app glitchy, or IS THIS INTENTIONAL?
This makes me put my tinhat on.
Tagging a few random people on my dash this morning (I hope you don’t mind). I really want to know, is this only happening to me?
It happened to me too! It is never the original post, and I thought it had something to do with @silentauroriamthereal ’s salty mary post–major thumbs up here :D–because afaik, that picture of Mary is used too? But yes it keeps popping up, for me underneath quotation posts only though. After the quote there’s a huge blank white space and DVD Mary at the end of it. It’s so creepy! I’ll try to snapshot it, but all you will see is Mary cos is keeps stretching across my phone….
Oh my God this has happened three or four times Mary pls I’m BUSY
*snort*
I HAD THIS HAPPEN BUT WITH A DIFFERENT PICTURE! This sounds way more fun
I know you two; and if I’m gone, I know what you could become.
TFP
I know that many people dislike that Mary is given the last word in TFP. I, too, would have wished someone else had spoken those words. But the fact that a character who (for many fans) is not likable or not perceived as worthy is chosen to speak those words does not mean that the words as such are not important or valid.
In BBC Sherlock many essential truths are spoken by villains which does not make them less valid. I would even go so far and say that more truths are spoken by villains than by John. Just think how often John is wrong about Sherlock (”He’s not like that. He doesn’t feel things that way” / “But why would he care? He’s Sherlock. Who would he
bother protecting?”).
Villains usually tell the truth in this show, especially where Sherlock is concerned.
“But we both know that’s not quite true.”
“Oh, and somebody loves you.”
“Look at us both.”
“But look how you care about John Watson.”
So coming back to the above quote – what does it mean? What can they become? They have been shown as partners, friends, best friends, groom/best man, father/godfather, family – there is only thing that is missing here. And while I am not sure if these words are given to Mary because the writers love her so much or because villains usually tell the truth, in the end it does not really matter. What matters is that they are spoken loud and clear.
Yes, absolutely @gosherlocked These words are spoken loud and clear. They are there for everyone to hear who wants to hear them. After flatmates, colleagues, friends, best friends, family …. what’s left what Sherlock and John could become? What they could only become after the death of John’s wife? Really! What???
I’ve reached a point, in fact since some weeks after TFP (my initial reaction
to TFP was “it’s shit, but at least there’s canon johnlock“ immediately
followed by “it’s shit and johnlock isn’t undeniable AT ALL and it’s
unfulfilling in too many ways, so fuck that”), where there’s no doubt in
my mind anymore that s4 ends at a point where johnlock is canon and
I’ll calmly disregard anything that Mofftiss say or do to deny this
(they can keep their baiting game for themselves, I’m not playing),
because they’ve written it and that’s finished in my mind. It’s
dispassionate surface reading. It’s what you’ve mentioned and several
other maybe subtle but definitely textual details, especially from the
hug onwards.
I don’t even care anymore, that show was a mess
and my johnlock happiness is out of the BBC’s control, but I’m unable to
unsee how canonical it is in that adaptation. As a matter of fact, the
more detached I become, the more clearly I see it. S4 is still terrible
and there’s still queerbaiting because it should be explicit and
undeniable, but it is what it is– Diet Canon Johnlock, sort of.
Honestly I DON’T because I LOVE S3 – it’s my favourite season – but I DO think it’s because Mary plays a huge part of it. S1 and S2 was a lot more Sherlock-and-John, a lot more adventure oriented, a lot more just the two of them… and it was all from John’s POV, and I think a lot of people misread Sherlock’s character and hated the way they softened him in S3 when he always was a big softy. See, I love S3 because it is from Sherlock’s POV and we get to see his inner complex thoughts and workings, and we get to see just how much he adores and idolizes John (I mean, John is just SO GORGEOUS in S3, and I think that’s because the camera is supposed to be from Sherlock’s POV, so John in turn looks beautiful). That would be my guess; I think they also believe John’s character changed, whereas I don’t believe he did at all – because we’re in Sherlock’s POV, we’re seeing how SHERLOCK perceives John, but he clearly picks up on John’s admiration for him (TSo3 and TAB are the most obvious).
But yes, I do believe MARY is the BIGGEST point against S3, and in the wake of S4, we’re seeing just how pointless her role and characterization was in S3 since they literally did nothing with it at the end of it all. They were building her up to be an interesting exciting villain and in the end nothing came of it.
I dimly recall enjoying watching the episodes the first time, at my friend’s house who had a tv. We laughed and gasped and squealed in probably most of the right places. But immediately afterward, we started noticing all the things that didn’t make sense, and the “plots” collapsed like houses of cards. So that was annoying and frustrating, and only some of that was “fixed” by meta analysis. TEH was packed with fake lying BS from one end to the other, and ymmv but i don’t enjoy that. TSOT was trying to come off as a wacky rom-com or something, but “mary” is just creepy, and sherlock is clearly heartbroken, so, no. HLV, i never wont to see again. SUPER creepy/rapey villain, the absolutely nonsensical shooting (s) etc, again, just NO. I wasted my money on the dvd set, learned my lesson there: do not preorder. Did not make that mistake again. “Mary” is definitely a big part of what ruined s3-4 for me, but not all of it. I nearly liked her for two whole weeks. A bigger factor was feeling disrespected as a fan, the nonsensical “plots”, the all hurt no comfort, and the simple lack of enjoyment on the part of the CHARACTERS. Gone were the moments like giggling in the 221b foyer, the “OH” and “brilliant!” and making each other smile and laugh. There was just nothing to savor, the way there had been in s1-2. I get that some people love angst, and I’m happy for them, but i can’t do it unmixed with any resolution. Sherlock being a “softy” is not a problem, he already was. I wish they had wrapped up “mary” within s3, rather than dragging her thru TAB and s4. Personally, i would have rather spent the time on sherlock and john, their back stories, their relationship, and slightly more plausible cases. Just, a more coherent story would be nice, rather than random chunks of six different WIPs.
I used to love Mary. Then HLV happened.
Mofftiss asked far too much of us. He wants to do a River Song 2.0 but this falls flat. I was told, no, ordered to forgive her for shooting Sherlock. They needed us to believe that she was surgery and at the same time implied that Sherlock never was in any danger.
So what? Moriarty telling Sherlock how he’s going to enjoy death, that meant nothing because he never was going to die? Sherlock punching the ground to start his heart again, that was just him being overdramatic? After all, that was surgery, he didn’t need to do it. So, he didn’t choose to live because he thought John was in grave danger because of that wife?
I would have reluctantly bought the surgery thing if Sherlock hadn’t had thought for 10 whole minutes that the way he needed to fall would change whether or not he’d survive this bullet wound and if he hadn’t crawled his way back to life after the doctor gave up on him.
And what Mary did spoils everything she’s done until then, doesn’t it? And she goes after Sherlock with a gun ready, looking after him with a look that is made to remind you of a hitman on a mission. We spend a third of the episode, the heart of this episode, honest to God thinking she’s going to kill Sherlock.
I could, somehow, have forgiven her. But they should have done it immediately afterwards.
Like, by doing something like that:
They do not drug Mary with the tea. She comes with them, because she is the one being blackmailed and she has her agency. They go to Magnussen’s office and he taunts them (while being reluctantly shifty of Mary but apparently being pregnant and having no gun on youself makes you harmless).
They follow Magnussen and her face literally looses colour when she realizes he has no documents and everything is in his head. She internally freaks out whenever he tells John something about her past because, God, what if John changes his mind?
And he starts flicking his face in front of her and she realizes that she’s put him in danger. That Magnussen can call anyone and they’d go killing her husband and her daughter.
So, when the helicopters start coming, she takes his gun and finally kills him. She tells John and Sherlock to get away from her, that she’s sorry to have put them on this mess and asks John to take good care of their daughter. She says that she did try to kill Sherlock because she’s known about this chain of pressure points business and she just wanted to break the chain and not turn John into a pawn, but she’s sorry. God, she’s sorry because she likes him but she wanted to protect John. Please forgive her, she’s never wanted her past to become their burden.
And she goes on the plane, because she too is too clever to go to prison. So she asks for Sherlock to look after John and the baby who’s now born. And the Moriarty video appears when she’s taken off.
And Sherlock tells Mycroft he’ll only help them if Mary comes back.
Had they done that, I would have cried like baby and forgiven everything.
Mr Homophobia is the driver of this ride, and I’m the enabler. Together we have hijacked the story and derailed it rather beautifully. So do hop on board – it’s gonna be a bumpy ride!
Choo – choo!
When Mr Homophobia – let’s call him ‘Jim’ – made his first appearance in the show, he already managed to give HBTQ people a negative representation:
Jim lured Sherlock into deducing him and ‘outing’ him as a dishonest gay man in front of John (who we all know is a bit closeted) and Molly (who had presented Jim as her new boyfriend).
As a Consulting Criminal, Jim also ‘helped’ minor gay characters in the show to appear to the audience as murderous people seeking revenge:
Jim’s Consulting services even included persuading a lesbian woman to dissimulate “falling in love” with a man (albeit in a rather treacherous way):
Jim’s true mission was made clear already in Season 1, though:
The inclusion of hallucinatory drugs made Mr Homophobia into an increasing problem for Sherlock…
…until the time was ripe for The Fall:
The Fall consisted in Sherlock abandoning the love of his life…
…and leaving said love interest in my warm, heteronormative hands:
And then, after Sherlock’s complete heartbreak…
… some traditional, homophobic tropes could play out nicely in Sherlock’s mind, even without Jim’s physical presence:
And Jim has even made sure Sherlock thinks he deserves being beaten:
And even if Sherlock might have had his doubts…
He still succumbs to the general concept:
Isn’t it amazing just how much Jim managed to do to an otherwise rational mind – the famous Sherlock Holmes – in just five minutes?
So, as I was saying, this story is really a beautiful train wreck; a masterpiece of post-modern, cynical art. Mr Homophobia and I – Mrs Heteronormativity – make a wonderful, serial-killing couple together. In short: Jim instils the fear and I give it some social context; we are the perfect villains!
[Sorry about this rather bleak take on Moriarty, but this is basically how I see him; as a companion metaphor to ‘Mary’. And this, as it seems, is now the way that everything’s going to remain… At least until the moment that Sherlock – and the audience – finally decides to WAKE UP and get rid of these villains once and for all!]
Hi, I’m ’Mary’. Or actually I’m A.G.R.A. Or – come to think of it – I’m rather ’Rosamund’. Or why not ‘Gabrielle’?
Or whatever. Whoever. The thing is, who I really am doesn’t matter; I could be anyone at all. ANYONE.
I’ll be who it’s convenient to be at any given moment. My mission: Serial Killer; I’m here to kill the series – slowly but surely.
I’m Mrs Heteronormativity; the one who tells you how to behave according to convention and normality. You do as I say – or else… I’m the one entitled to guide you through life, to make sure you remain perfectly ordinary. And here are some lessons about me I want to teach you:
1. You must always marry me; everyone knows it’s for the best.
2. Don’t even think about same-sex relationships!
3. I’m here to prevent any sidestepping.
4. Marrying an assassin is perfectly sane and normal.
In fact anything is OK as long as it means No Homo. Oh, are you hurt? Sorry, but collateral damage is inevitable.
5. There’s no use trying to express your pathetic feelings if I tell you they are inappropriate.
6. Just so you know: I’m everything you wish for.
7. I make sure your baby’s name is appropriate to gender.
Which means:
Nope.
Exactly. Good boy!
8. With me you’ll be sure to have the right family values.
9. I’ll always be there to tell you what to do – even if you think I’m dead. And it’s No Homo!
10. And ultimately, I’m the one who gets to define who you really are.
I do hope you’ve been paying attention to me now, and never more try to step out of the ordinary…
[This is, very much, how I see ‘Mary’. She’s not a real character – she’s a nightmare! That’s why she lacks any constancy regarding feelings or back-story or name or anything. And that’s why she keeps haunting the show even after her death, like a ghost. “Do not forget me” – we’re not getting a chance to ever forget the Abominable Bride, not even for a moment. She’s merely a metaphor. And series 3 and 4 are mainly about consequences – the results you get when you listen to this sort of concept and let it define your life.]
I’ve been mulling over this theory more and more, that Mary has been drugging John and Sherlock with TD12. I’ll specifically focus on John here:
So, from possibly the end of The Six Thatchers leading into The Lying Detective, John is starting to ‘see’ Mary. But because of the drug, he is not sure what is real and what isn’t– he doesn’t understand that the real Mary is actually holding him hostage. (See Looks like John’s trapped by @teapotsubtext)
But, like the real Faith, perhaps something started to click before John forgot entirely. We see Faith upset and shaking trying to write out her note:
FAITH (tearfully): I can’t remember. Can’t remember who you’re gonna kill. SMITH: Dear, in five minutes you won’t even remember why you were crying. (x)
Imagine Smith as Mary and John as Faith:
What if John pretty damned smart Watson was fighting the effects of the drug, had started to remember that something was Very Wrong. He needs to leave a message, let Sherlock know-
But Mary is always watching him. She sees John writing the note and:
“Oh, Faith John. Don’t you think I should take that? It’s only going to upset you.”
She can’t have John and Sherlock communicating at all, she needs to keep them isolated from each other, make them feel like all hope is lost. She can’t risk Sherlock reading any sort of sign from John.
So, what does she do? Well, why not amp up the isolation even more? Threaten more people to follow her own game plan?
What if Mary threatened Molly, forcing her to hand Sherlock a note, and to tell him it was from John:
But, it wasn’t. Perhaps it was a deliberately scathing note, designed to keep Sherlock from contacting John, so that he would not reveal to John the DVD Mary sent him.
And meanwhile, Mary destroys the evidence John wrote. Without the note, just like Faith, he forgets that anything was ever amiss.
LOVE THIS THEORY. Makes so much sense. PLUS Mary KNOWS John has hallucinated in the past about dead people in his life (remember TEH and John looking to her to ensure she’s seeing Sherlock too? That to me says that John has hallucinated Sherlock in the past, and that Mary is aware of it), so she thinks she was important enough to John that she could fool him into thinking John would hallucinate her too… until he actually does, with the TD-12 drug. PLUS a lot of the language she uses in T6T and TLD is very “suggestive”, like she’s trying to plant ideas into John’s head (the “letter she wrote” to him while on the run) and is using John’s own sense of poor self worth against him.
How would she have administered the drug? We see it only used through IV.
There was a theory going around here that “Eurus” (read: Mary) intentionally made sure she had a moment alone with Sherlock in The Lying Detective (that the audience hasn’t seen the whole of yet)- more drugs could have been slipped in the water she gave him.
Well John is notoriously easy to poison, Sherlock’s said so himself. He may have even given her the idea, at the wedding. And the easiest way to slip it to Sherlock would be to have his dealer/chemist on your side, someone Mary’s already met… maybe earlier than we’re led to believe.
“Don’t drink Mary’s tea.” IF THEIR TEA WAS POISONED IN REVENGE… ALSO, could that add more to Wiggins just up and leaving when Sherlock starts his Henry V speech? “He’s lost it, he’s totally gone.” Did he know the stuff was kicking in fully and felt guilty?
Wiggins you traitor…
😥 but if this is happening, and obviously Billy Wiggins=William=William Sherlock… then it’s a mirror for Mary manipulating Sherlock…
My latest theory is that Sherlock ignores Vatican Cameos because John thinks he ignored the note (when in fact Mary interfered).
oh. OH. OUCH
oh my god @nottoolateforthegame this is KILLING ME…. John in the opening of TLD bitterly saying he’s not been in contact with Sherlock and Sherlock’s not attempted to make any contact with him;- Eurus Mary taunting him: “How can you be sure? He might have tried.” And John replying: “
No, if Sherlock Holmes wants to get in touch, that’s not something you can fail to notice.”
!!!
So Mary uses Eurus to do stuff or Mary is Eurus? And we say that TFP is John bleeding to death after Mary shot him/ Eurus for Mary? @jenna221b
yeah I see it more as Mary literally is Eurus (see A Case of (Mistaken) Identity) and after she shoots John, she causes the pained hallucinated TFP– she is ‘the grim figure of death’, the one who brings about John’s Garridebs/near death moment.
It’s a plausible theory if you want to absolve John of some of the problematic characterization in seasons 3 & 4. It paints him as a hapless victim, which means that none of his … unpalatable actions during those seasons were his fault. It’s a reading I would prefer, to be honest. I’m not quite sure there’s enough in canon to bear that out, but it works for fanfiction– which is fine by me…
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